Sage Advice: Episode 1│Cathy Wodarski
Presented by: Crum Consulting
Host: Maria Johnson, Junior Consultant in Marketing
Guest: Cathy Wodarski, Founder of Wodarski Consulting
Full Interview: https://youtu.be/7Faod1-SZ9E?si=KPKTTHQo6ZzjZJsz
Maria: Welcome to the Sage Advice series, presented by Crum Consulting. I'm Maria Johnson, junior consultant in marketing, and I'm thrilled to introduce our very first guest, Cathy Wodarski of Wodarski Consulting. Cathy, it's a pleasure to have you as our first guest here today.
Cathy: Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. I'm excited about this, it's definitely something I feel comfortable talking about, since I've been in this position for many, many years.
Maria: Perfect, that's exactly what I was hoping for. We'll jump right in. From my research, I saw that you worked under some other businesses in recruiting, sales, budgeting, management, I even saw that you were president of the Austin Human Resource Management Association.
Cathy: Exactly, super cool, that was very cool. I highly, highly recommend consultants getting into the field to find their local human resource chapter, because ultimately in business consulting, your end user, the person that says yay or nay, is in human resources. I'd say at least 75% of the time, they're the ones to also give you leads within their company. As an example, if someone needs coaching on leadership, in my case they'll call me from human resources and say, Cathy, we have so-and-so and this is where they're having trouble, can you start them on a coaching series for leadership, or conflict resolution, whatever the case might be. But it comes from human resources.
It's not an overnight thing. I jumped into the Austin Human Resource Managers Association when I first came to Austin, that was 1995. At that point I was working for a staffing company, and again, my end user, the person who calls for staff, is in HR, so I said, I just need to become known there, because there was a lot of staffing companies, we had over 400 staffing companies competing for the same business that I wanted, right here in Austin, Texas.
Maria: Wow.
Cathy: So I had to go in there and prove to them why they wanted to do business with me. We buy from people we like and trust, it's a two-prong thing, if they don't like you, no matter how good you are, you're probably not going to get the upper hand. And even if they like you but don't really trust you, that's going to kick you out of there too. I went in with my eyes wide open, sleeves rolled up, and said, what can I do to assist you in human resource management? It was everything from grunt work, belonging to some of the presentations, and helping at their annual conference. I paid my dues for about, I'll say, a good three to five years, and you pick out parts of human resources that you go, okay, recruiting, I like to recruit, so I actually got in with that group and helped them. Then when they have a need and they know you and trust you, they pick up the phone and call you.
I was with that staffing company for a total of, I think, 25 years. In Houston part of the time, but Austin most of the time. It was great, because I had a knowledge base and a contact base with people that knew me and trusted me, so when I started knocking on their door, it was already open.
Then in 2006, after working for that staffing company for all those years, they sold out. I did not like the new management at all, we just did not see eye to eye. Prior to them buying us out, we were what's called high-end administrative and placements, they were blue collar, totally different mindset, they would go in and recruit anybody that was breathing, we were selective, that's how we did our business. So, long story short, I said, this is it, I'm going to retire, I'm old enough, I don't need to work anymore. That lasted for all of two weeks. In those two weeks, I had a couple of phone calls from my competitors, because they knew who I was, they knew how good I was, and that I was the one stealing business from them. They said, come work for us, come work for us. And I said, oh no, I don't think I want to go work for anybody, but I will train your people for you.
I did not realize that was going to be the birth of my company.
Maria: That's awesome, I love it.
Cathy: I had all this knowledge at that point, I'll spare telling you exactly how old I was, but I had at least 40 years in sales, 40 years in recruiting people. So I did that for a couple weeks, and I told my husband, I said, you know, I really like this, I think I'm going to start a business. He said, go for it. So then it was a matter of finding a logo I liked, getting my tagline, putting a website together, all things I had never done in my life before, that's not my strength, but there are people out there who do anything you need, you just have to research and find the right person, so I hired people to help me with my logo, and my business was launched.
I wish I could say it went off like a rocket, it did not. However, I was getting enough business that I felt, this is good. Plus I was new and green to the training world, I'd never formally trained in front of people before, it was more one-on-one training, and I could do that seven days a week, no problem. But getting up in front of a group of 30 or 40 people, commanding their attention, and passing on my knowledge and walking away feeling that it went well, that takes a bit of practice. When I reflected back after a few years, I thought, wow, I was really green, they really must have loved me, but enough was said that they found value in it.
My earlier companies gave me a lot of knowledge as a regional manager, a group manager, in outside sales, so all that experience, plus my age, entered into it, people began to see the value I brought to the team, and the rest is history, it just grew and grew.
About eight years ago I ended up with one primary, huge client. For whatever reason, they did not want to hire a trainer in-house, but they found it very lucrative to hire me whenever they needed something done, whether it was one-on-one training or group training, traveling to put on presentations, whatever, so they wouldn't have to pull from their HR staff, they would just call me. I became a bit of a household word after a while, like, oh, call Cathy, or, they need to talk to her. It grew and grew over the last several years, it was more than full-time over the last couple of years.
The truth be known, in sales you should never have a lot of your business in one pipeline, if the pipeline goes away, your business is gone. Even knowing that, I said, I'm really at an age where it's okay, I love my one client, I know my one client, I'm comfortable, and I would occasionally say, I can't do that today, can I do it tomorrow. I wasn't ever worried it was all going to go away. Well, it happened about two months ago, their parent company, which is in Australia, called them and said no outside trainers whatsoever. So my client called me and said, I can't believe I'm making this call, Cathy, but they've told us no more outside trainers.
I said, well, it's been a wonderful ride, it's met my needs, and maybe it's time that I retire this time. And I did that, until last week, when I got a call from that client, and they want me to do two classes in January.
Maria: That's awesome.
Cathy: So I'm not totally out of business, I'm not totally retired. My family just shakes their head, and I say, I know, I know, but they really need me, and they wrote such a beautiful email, you wouldn't believe it, Maria, it just broke my heart, they valued me so much as a consultant and a trainer. I called her and said, of course I'd be happy to do that, and I was able to walk her through her thoughts and give her pointers on what might work best for her group. Now I've got two classes, back to back, of 20 people each. I like to keep it on the smaller side, I think the message is heard better, and the interaction of the team is much better, too large and you tend to get cliques in different parts of the room, you lose control, then everybody's talking and nobody's really getting it.
I'll voice it because of my age, but I have no problem saying, and I'm quoting myself, we have one person talking at a time, if you would like to talk please let me know and I'll be quiet.
Maria: Pretty strong, I love it.
Cathy: Pretty strong, but you have to maintain that control, otherwise it becomes a free-for-all. Not that what they have to say isn't invaluable, it might be, but that's why I need you to raise your hand so you can share it with the group, otherwise it's distracting to the other people in the room. That's one of those little things I do that I know really works. It takes a little bit of courage to say that to a group of people you don't know, but it works exceedingly well.
I'm kind of babbling on, Maria, I don't know.
Maria: I'm totally okay with that, the question was going to be about your journey anyway, and I feel like you've taken me through it.
Cathy: I love that. Well, let me begin at the beginning then, briefly. I was a young bride, and I had just lost 60 pounds. I saw an ad in the paper, it said "clothing consultants wanted," free wardrobe, and I thought, this is wonderful. So I started my business with a clothing company, it was in-home party plan sales, like a Tupperware lady. I did it for 22 years, out of over 20,000 individuals I was in the top ten for over ten years, I was the number one salesperson for three or four years.
Maria: That's cool.
Cathy: So I was very good, but it also gave me a lot of confidence in front of people, no matter who they were. I knew the clothing, I knew the background, and my best interest was to have them looking good in what they bought, because they're more inclined to have a show themselves, or come back and buy more. I think the same thing is true with all consulting, you want to score a win with them, otherwise, why come to me, why pay me? They don't have to. So that confidence comes through too, the more you do it, the easier it gets. There's that old saying, confidence breeds success and success breeds confidence.
Maria: Very true, you just have to do it long enough.
Cathy: Yes, but something else along those lines, too, being a solo player early on, not having a manager since I was self-employed, I told myself after a showing, okay, what made this showing good, why was it a disaster today, what didn't I do right. I employ that, and I try to train managers on that too, to sit back and reflect for a few minutes, because it will help you in the future. If I don't do good hostess coaching, I may not have a good showing, that falls on my shoulders. As a manager, if you don't do any planning, how can you expect a good day?
Maria: Yeah, you just walk in the door and that's it, that's what's going to happen. So would you say that you were almost like your own first consulting client, in how you refined your techniques across every career you've had?
Cathy: Very true, very true. As I started that, I thought, well, I can do this, and I can recruit other people, because when you recruited other people, you got a residual on their sales, so I thought, this is cool, I'll do that. That was in Cleveland, Ohio, then we moved to Houston and I took the company with me, since I was self-employed, and there were only three consultants there, and over 1,200 in Cleveland doing the same thing. So I opened up the region, recruited over a hundred women, and trained them on how to be their best in presentations. It was a wonderful job, we traveled, we won gifts, I had a car, two wardrobes a year, it was great.
But all good things come to an end, and that company went out of business, was bought out of Chicago. So I was faced with, what do I do with the rest of my life, I'm 40 years of age. I had a girlfriend who went into staffing, and she said, you'd be a natural, Cathy, try staffing. So I did, and I had to start at the very lowest end after making really good money, in the 80s when you made $100,000, you were rich, that was great. But now I was starting a brand new career, working for someone else for the first time, and the salary they offered me was $18,000 a year.
Maria: Oh wow.
Cathy: And I'm 40 years of age, and I'd paid my dues, that's what I told myself. So I told her, when she offered me that, I said I will take it, because I will prove to you that I'm worth so much more. Within six months I told her again, she's a great manager, I said, Pam, I want to manage this branch, I know how to manage people, this is what I want. It's amazing, Maria, when we tell people what we want, we're saying out loud what's in our dream, and then you find ways to make it happen. She said, well, Cathy, that's my job, and I'm not going anywhere. I said, not today, but the company's growing, you already have four branches, manage a branch. She kind of chuckled and said, so noted.
So here's some sage advice, if you will. After that one-on-one with her, I went back to my desk, and opened my day timer, this is back when it was a day timer, you opened it up and it was a whole week at a glance, 7:00, 7:15, 7:30, you'd write things down. I looked at everything on my agenda and said, this will not get me to where I want to be, scratch, this will not get me to where I want to be, scratch. In other words, focus on the priorities that get you to your dreams. So I did that, and then I wrote across the top of the page, not only for that day, but for years to come: I will be the very best branch manager at the temporary connection. I wrote it all out, every morning looked at what I had to do, crossed it off, focused.
Maria: Sage advice, affirmations work.
Cathy: They do, they do. I not only became that branch manager, I became their troubleshooter. First they put me at the worst branch possible, where people hadn't had a manager in six months or more, and long story short, I went from that branch to the next branch, seven years total had passed through all of that. I was meeting with the four owners and said, I really want to move to Austin, Texas and open a branch there. They looked at one another and said, Cathy, we're Houston-based, we're not going to Austin. I said, I would like to open a branch, are you leaving us? Not today, but now that I've said this out loud, I said, my daughter's there, my granddaughter's there, my husband's parents are there, I want to be there.
It was dead silent, nobody said anything, and the meeting ended abruptly. It took them a couple weeks, but then they came back and said, were you serious? I said, I didn't realize how serious I was until I said it out loud. They said, well, would you go do a market survey in Austin, see if there's enough business for us, they'd never done a market survey before, but I said, of course I can. So I went to Austin, stayed with my mother-in-law and father-in-law, went to many businesses and did some reconnaissance, and my biggest takeaway was, we should have been there five years ago.
Long story short, they promoted me to regional manager, I came to Austin, opened a branch, recruited everybody, trained everybody. I was recruiting, in sales, and branch manager all at the same time. It was profitable within six months, which was huge, and then from there I also opened up San Antonio.
Maria: Oh wow.
Cathy: Two for one, it was great. It was doing all the things I love. Speaking your mind really goes a long way, huh?
Maria: I think you have to be honest, and when you say it out loud, it's like you're committing almost to it, like, I'll find a way, this will work, I do want this.
Cathy: Yes, amazing, nothing comes easy, there are pitfalls and heartaches and all, but they become very minute to the joy that you have in doing things that turn out right, and finding the good in everything you do, and learning from the things you don't do well.
Maria: I like that, I think that's great advice for a lot of younger people in the job market right now, trying to figure out what they want to do. Even myself, it's just a big question mark, but then I hear other people's journeys, and it's truly a journey, and I'm like, I'm just in a little small section of this, and as long as I make my commitments, it'll go somewhere.
Cathy: It will go somewhere. How did I ever get into sales? I don't know, I grew up in a grocery store environment, with my dad owning the store, so I was around people all the time, I saw business, saw a lot of people, it was easy to talk to them, it was kind of natural. Then the leadership and management side, because so many people don't get it, I thought, I can show you what to do.
I'm laughing, because last week (I volunteer a lot too), I was at my volunteer gig, the Austin Assistance League, and this woman had her apron on, and it was falling off of her, and she had her cell phone in the pocket dragging the other side down. So I walked up and said, Linda, you look like a little ragamuffin today, do you mind if I straighten you out. I think it's because my intentions are good, it's not to make her feel bad, I love doing that, and it's the approach I take with everything in life. Can I tell you, how about this, have you thought about that, I don't have all the answers, but I can talk through any problem with you, and we can come up with something that's going to feel good.
I guess the biggest part of my success, I have to give this credit to, is that I am a DISC behavioral analyst. People say, oh, Myers-Briggs, I say, no, Myers-Briggs is a personality assessment, you are an oak tree, forever an oak tree, that's who you are. DISC is a behavioral tool that helps us understand other people and ourselves.
Maria: Interesting.
Cathy: Yeah, my staffing company used a similar tool, and I loved it, because it really helped me take the guesswork out and look and say, okay, this is what you need from me, you need a smile, you need this, you need me to be straightforward, you need me to be stern, you need me to give you a lot of, or, you're all different. If I'm a high I, and I give a lot of details, they're like, too much information, and the C is saying, oh no, I want more information. But how do we know that just by looking at a person? We manage all the same, we consult all the same, that's a problem. So if they want to get into any type of long-term, one-on-one coaching, DISC is a wonderful tool, it generates a workbook, and it's not inexpensive, I'll admit, but you recoup it. Like this last batch of 55 people I sent out DISC reports for, I'll make a profit on those before I even meet with them, and it also gives me a lot of information to pass on to the manager, who will see even more value in working with me, because she can say, Cathy, we have so-and-so, I think she's an S, how do we coach them, what do we do?
It generates a workbook, so I'm easy, I can just open it up and say, this is what we need to do, take a look at page so-and-so, we're going to role-play, and I have 100% confidence in what I'm suggesting to them, because it's who they are.
Maria: Interesting, so would you say communication plays a huge role in consulting, and learning how to communicate with people in different ways? How have those communication skills guided you through your consulting experience?
Cathy: Immensely, it tells me when to shut up. If I'm dealing with a high D individual, they're abrupt, they want you to get to the point quickly, so I ratchet it up, and I say, all right, we're going to talk in bullet points today, because I know that's what you want to hear, you don't want the long version, and they go, thank God, yes, just get to the point. A high I, and you probably have a lot of I in you, I haven't done your DISC, but I can kind of feel that you're a high I, you're engaging, you're smiling, you're... what's the word I want... energetic, it's an I or I-combination.
It's helped me since I first used the DISC tool with my staffing company, back in 1985, so what is that, 40 years of using assessments? It's tried and true, it's huge. They can go online if they ever want to look it up, it's D-I-S-C, and there are a lot of DISCs, but this particular one has the lowercase i, D-I-S-C, and I chose it because the validation process is outstanding, I can say with confidence, if you answer the questions correctly, this is who you are. Most of the time I get, you called my mother, how do you know this about me? Because you answered questions, and it generated summary pages, it's a fabulous tool.
Maria: Beneficial outside of business as well?
Cathy: Absolutely, I've sometimes had families come in, and it's almost like therapy, I call it therapy hour, this person's not getting this from you, and this person's not getting this from you. We respond to the needs of others if we understand the needs of others.
Maria: And you said communication is key.
Cathy: It absolutely is. There's a wonderful quote, I actually started teaching a whole class around it, we all communicate but do we connect? What is connection, how do we connect, how do we know we are connected, how does the process start? I train a whole class on that alone, a short hour class, a lunch and learn. The longer you're in the business, the more you see the needs. At first I was concerned, since I'm a little bit older, when I started coaching, would people really listen to what I have to say, or would they not see me for age but just see me for experience? It was never a problem, it was never a problem. If they had a self-judgment to begin with, it went away right away.
Maria: Wow, so would you say, in terms of communication or outside of it, there's been a pivotal moment or a pivotal challenge that you've overcome when you were starting out consulting, that has shaped how you go about consulting now?
Cathy: I don't see any really major pivotal points other than when I went to the owners in Houston and said I wanted to open the branch, and just making that decision, and not getting disappointed when it doesn't go exactly like you had hoped. We are human, be forgiving of yourself, look to what you did well and what you didn't do so well, and think, all right, I need to practice that, or I need to find more to read on that. I'm a very avid reader on management and consulting books, I read two blogs every single week, I think you always have to sharpen your saw, to see what's out there, so that you can draw on it, and sometimes it's just a sentence I read, and it's like, that's profound, take it and write it down, and it becomes a huge piece of what I put together in my consulting.
It's interesting, this goes back many years, and it was, how do we communicate? And I'm thinking, well, I talk. No, what the article said was, of course we communicate in several different ways. Number one, the way we communicate is our body language, it's 55% of all your communication.
Maria: Wow, that's huge.
Cathy: It's huge. If I was sitting here kind of slouched when I'm talking, my body would not be saying, but I choose to sit up straight, I choose to smile a lot, I try not to talk too much with my hands, and that's hard because I'm expressive and my hands tend to add to the expression. That's 55%, but the second way we communicate is the tone of our voice. I'll give a little story here to prove my point. I work from my home, so I have a recorder when I'm out doing presentations. I came back one day and my recorder wasn't working well, so I thought, darn, I'll have to get a new one before my last session. I ran out, got a new recorder, put a voice message on it, left, came back, and the light was blinking, a message from my son. He said, mom, call me, and I thought, okay, he sounds worried. I called and said, hey Joey, what's up? He said, mom, are you okay? I said, oh yeah, I'm fine honey, what's the deal? He said, your voice, you really sounded so upset on the phone. Well, I had been upset because I had to run out and get this new recorder in a hurry, so I didn't think about how I was projecting myself.
So tone, as far as all people accounts for, is 37%. 55 and 37 is 93%, we haven't even gotten to your choice of words, your choice of words is only 7%.
Maria: That's crazy.
Cathy: I use that at every single training I give, because I want to point out that it makes a difference. I had a manager, oh, I'll never forget him, he was a bit of a brute. He hit his desk really hard and said loudly, I don't believe any of that, it makes no difference, if I want to drive a point home, I just drive a point home. I didn't know what to say at first, Maria, I looked at him, he had his eleven executive managers around him, and I said to myself, Cathy, you're going out on a limb here, and the limb may crack, and you may never be asked back to this company again, but I have to say what's true. I said to the group, do you listen more and pay attention more when Bobby hits the desk or slams the door? No one said a word, but they all knew.
So I called him on his behavior, which was rude and horrible, and I never went back there to that company. It was okay, because what he was doing was managing by intimidation. So when I get someone else like that, I'll tell the story, not directly to them, I'll say, I had this manager that was managing by intimidation, so what do you think that means, and then we go down that road. I tell a lot of stories in my coaching, life stories that I've seen unfold, it's just easy.
I'll tell one on my granddaughter Cole, she was probably about five, a little chatterbox just like her grandmother, we were making Christmas cookies, she was on a stool to get up to the counter, and I was here and she was here, and she was yapping just like I do, and I'm making this Christmas dough, I think nine cups of flour, and I'm not writing anything down, just kind of counting, and she's going yes Nico, yes Cole, yes Cole, uh-huh, and finally these two little hands come up next to me, and she does the grandma, "pay attention." I use that story because how many times, as a manager, are you saying, yes, go ahead, tell me, sure, uh-huh, I got it, I got it, not truly listening. Even a child knows when you're not paying attention, even a child.
Maria: So how do you think an adult feels?
Cathy: Discounted, it doesn't make a difference, they're not really going to give me the best answer. So what's critically important in communication, again, is connection, we go back to that story. But see, you'll remember that story about Cole forever, won't you?
Maria: Yes, well, you can't not.
Cathy: Absolutely, so it's the same thing when you tell a good story when you're coaching, people don't always remember what you're trying to teach them, but they remember the stories, all the time.
One more story and then I'll let you ask me a question. I was out in sales, calling on 400 staffing companies here in Austin, calling on one of the big ones, and I finally said to her, there's a lot of good cars out there, in fact I drove a Honda for many years, and when it was time to buy a new car, I asked the ladies in my office, and everybody was driving Toyotas, so I thought, I'm going to go try a Honda again and drive it, and also test drive a Toyota. The Honda, if you've ever had one, always sounds the same, you crank the engine, it sounds the same, it's reliable, a good sturdy car. But then I got in the Toyota, and I'm like, more headroom, I'm tall, this is great driving on the freeway, I actually took a test drive, and I was like, oh my gosh, the stereo system in here is wonderful, and it's so quiet. Does that make the Honda a bad car? No, but sometimes until we make a change, we don't know how good the change can be.
Maria: That's some really powerful advice.
Cathy: So fast forward, I'm now at that client, and she is my client, but I'm bringing a brand new sales rep to meet her, because I like the client to tell the sales rep why they're using our service, I can tell them all the time, but when the client says it. The first words out of Debbie's mouth were, did you tell her the Toyota story? I said, that was a couple years ago, she said, Cathy, it was the story that changed my mind.
So Maria, do you see?
Maria: I do, I feel like I have become more open to change just within the past ten seconds.
Cathy: It's the story, it's the story, and we don't know until we try. I used that story so much, I'd buy little Toyota matchbox cars and leave a note with my prospects, "are you ready to test drive our service yet?"
Maria: I love that creativity.
Cathy: Anyway, all right, be quiet, let you ask a question or two.
Maria: It's all good. So, as you said, you use stories a lot when you're consulting, could you walk us through what an average day of consulting looks like for you?
Cathy: I don't know if there's an average day, quite honestly, just because it depends on how busy your consulting business is. It could be a seven-day work week, as an example, if you have a lot of big presentations to work on. There are things I enjoy doing, standing up in front of people and talking, making cold calls, believe it or not, I like that, sitting in front of the computer putting together a PowerPoint, I hate it. So an average day for me, if I have a lot of computer work, is I talk to my Apple watch and set a timer for no less than an hour, sometimes two, and I say, I am going to work until my watch goes off, and then I have permission to go out in my yard, make myself a cup of tea, go for a walk, whatever, because we're self-driven, there are parts of any business we like more than others, so we have to learn how to manage the parts we don't like as much. Think of what you like to do, and reward yourself when you do the part you don't. You have to do it, you can't procrastinate, because when you get in front of individuals, you're not going to have a good finished product if you haven't been diligent about getting your work together.
An average day for me is so varied, I exercise every morning, I walk 10,000 steps most days, I love to cook, so I cook most dinners for my husband, and depending on what's coming up the next day or the next week, I'm working in chunks. If it's a big presentation, I'll take a chunk and say, today I want to get through this whole section, it's going to be about an hour of my presentation for a four-hour session, and I try not to do more than four hours at any time, two hours is almost too little when you're working with the DISC, three hours is right, four is awesome, but after that they lose interest, they're tired. So I break up my day, look at what has to be done, and organization is huge. If you're starting out in the business, you've got to set time aside for marketing, you've got to do the marketing piece, it's important, lucky you if it just comes to your door, but in most cases it's not going to, because there are a lot of us out there.
Maria: I feel like you'd be natural at marketing, with how thorough your communication is.
Cathy: Oh, thank you, yeah, I am good at marketing, and I'm best face to face, I would much rather be face to face with my prospects, that's why I was never afraid to knock on doors, walk into big buildings, and try to meet the order placers, and stand out. I find it's all about people. When I was first in the staffing business, you have to go through the gatekeeper, the person at the front desk, and I thought, if I make her a friend, she's going to have good stuff to say about me to the order placer, and even though they might already be using another service, I'll probably stand out. How else will I stand out, instead of just leaving a business card? Leave a personal note by way of introduction: "My name is Cathy Wodarski and I'm with the temporary connection. I know you're very busy, so I would like to call you back to set up a time that would be convenient for you. I will call you tomorrow between the hours of 10 and 12. I hope you take my call. Most sincerely, Cathy Wodarski," and my business card. I still know that note today, I've written it a thousand times.
Maria: That's amazing, how do you stand out in a world of consultants. I feel like a lot of businesses are starting to steer away from that personal touch too, especially with AI coming forward, a lot of people are turning to that for their communication instead. I feel like a lot of people could rediscover the value in a personal touch, and connection is just as important as communicating, they have to be together to truly make that impact.
Cathy: Absolutely, how much are we going to trust AI down the road? As soon as something goes wrong, we're going to look and say, oh my god, I put faith and trust and now what? I'm sorry, call me old, call me mature if you will, but nothing's going to take the place of human touch, the human understanding, its not just cookie-cutter, AI will be more or less cookie-cutter, it's people who put into that data bank for it to come out. Please be real with me, be honest.
Maria: So specifically, for people looking to become a consultant, or even people thinking about hiring a business consultant, do you have any advice for them?
Cathy: As far as the consultant, this is more or less after the fact, once you have that client, make sure you're asking that person you're working with to allow enough time at the end, like ten minutes, to do what I call a wrap-up. If I were sitting with you and you were my client today, and I was training you on business development, I'd say, the last ten minutes, Maria, now we're going to do a wrap-up of the day. First of all, tell me three ideas that you're taking away from today, and I'd like you to write them down.
Maria: I like that.
Cathy: So Maria thinks, well, I like the way you said that, I really see a lot of value in that, that was good. Great, when are you going to put those to work, when are you going to start doing this, and I challenge you to do it all within the next week, to start working on parts of that. That's part of it in ten minutes. And then the next thing I usually ask them is, all right, here comes the big HR manager down the hallway, they know you and I have met, they ask you, what did you learn that was most valuable from Cathy? Because then it lets me understand, are they learning too when they're being tested by those paying the bill, they know, well, they learned this, they learned that, they learned time mastery, they learned about recruiting, whatever the case may be.
That's something we don't do enough of. When I'm doing a classroom training, I ask for fifteen minutes for a wrap-up, and we go round robin, tell me one thing you're taking away, write it down, and I want you to turn that in to your manager, because I want them to hold you accountable. It also lets the manager see, because I usually have four questions: how would you rate this, what did you most enjoy, if you could have anything else trained on what would it be, and there's another question I'm trying to remember. They fill that out and it all goes back to the manager, so the manager sees firsthand. And I'll brag on myself, on a scale of one to five, I generally get 95%, all good vibes. People love my classes, I love it, it's relaxed, it's friendly, it's knowledgeable.
Maria: I feel like a key to that sort of success is you don't tell people what to do, you genuinely just guide them to the place that they need to be, they get there themselves, but you're there to help them on the journey.
Cathy: Yes, just remind them, because we all go to these classes all the time, we hear good advice, we read a book, oh that was good, and some of it sticks, I'm not going to say nothing sticks, but until we write it down and put it into a plan of action, we're not going to change, we do the same thing we've always done. You've got to be willing to say, all right, I'm not really great at closing the sale, as an example, so we talked about closing the sale, and it's like, oh my gosh, I learned so much, good, what did you learn, what are you going to do differently on your next call, how are you going to close the sale.
Maybe I'll end with this story, you'll really laugh. After 40 years of age, done with the clothing business, now I'm going to work at the staffing company, working for a company for the first time, and I'm interviewing for the first time, I've never interviewed for a job, and I'm 40. The manager is interviewing me for an hour and a half, and I'm thinking, dear God, I didn't even have a resume, that's how green I was with that whole thing. Her last question was, Cathy, what will you do if you don't get this job? I didn't even blink, I said, I will go to your competition, and you will be forever sorry that you did not hire me.
She laughed, and I kind of chuckled too, it was ballsy, but it's how I felt. It's okay to say what you feel, believe in yourself, believe that you have something to offer, but also really want to help somebody else, it's not just a gig, it's not just a coaching session, it's not just a paycheck, it's never been that, it's the passion and the confidence.
Maria: I think I could speak for the audience, and most certainly myself, when I say I've learned a lot from you in just the past 50 minutes, and I'm going to write some of this down after I finish up.
Cathy: That's great, so give me one, what's one or two things you're taking away?
Maria: I think the biggest thing is speaking my mind when I have an idea, and just throwing it out there, because it kind of speaks it into existence. I feel like I hold a lot in my head, and it just gets muddled together, and I think it takes a lot longer than it would have if I had just started going for it.
Cathy: Yeah, you have nothing to lose. If you say it with all heart and sincerity and belief, you have nothing to lose, if you're wrong, it's like, I should have looked at it from that point, thank you for saying that, I learned something from that, and I still learn every day.
Maria: Well, what is the biggest takeaway that you would like our audience, whoever's watching this, to take away?
Cathy: Gosh, I guess, going into all consulting really trying to make a difference in that person, help them be the best that they can be, because if that's the root you're coming from, that will definitely come out in truth. You won't be afraid to say things that might be a little offensive to somebody, or that they might not like to hear, but the truth of the matter is, I want you to be successful. It's kind of like, this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you, sometimes it's more difficult for the consultant to say something than it is for the person to receive it. If you give it, watch your tone, don't be condescending, just listen to yourself, and if you're not sure about your tone, listen to a recording you made, listen to your voicemail, ask somebody else to judge, do I sound condescending, do I sound inquisitive, do I sound like someone you would like to listen to for four hours at a consulting training session, that's a long time to hear this.
Maria: So I guess that would be it. Well, thank you so much, thank you for guiding us through your professional journey, it was very interesting and a lot of fun.
Cathy: Good, hopefully it wasn't too all over the place, but hopefully it was enough.
Maria: I think it was great. Well, like I was saying, thank you so much, I think there are so many professionals of all ages who will take a lot of what you said to heart and apply it to their work, and it's great advice, I hope that they do. One last thing, where can our audience find you if they're looking for some expertise consulting?
Cathy: Website is wodarskiconsulting.com, email is my first name Cathy, last name Wodarski, W-O-D-A-R-S-K-I, at gmail.com.
Maria: Beautiful, thank you, and that concludes our series. Thank you so much for your sage advice.
